Any other Brits?

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Rob
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:05 am
First Name: Rob
Last Name: Hughes
City or Town: Worcester
State or Province: UK

Re: Any other Brits?

Post by Rob »

We had the Light Aircraft Association rally over the weekend here in England and I caught up with Ian (Seager), publisher of Flyer magazine so I grilled him about the Panther. It seems there are at least 5 of us interested and I know of one more who is keen.

I had hoped to catch up with LAA chief engineer Francis Donaldson but he was not there for personal reasons. I did talk to the deputy chief engineer (Jon Viner) and CEO (Phil Hall, who also said he'd be interested in being a customer). So far all talk has been with Francis so little to report.

Looking round the other aircraft at the rally, it seems to me there is certainly a gap for a cnc-machined (relatively straightforward to put together) metal single seater. We can talk about the Cougar when more details emerge...

Rob

Ian Seager
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 3:55 pm
First Name: Ian
Last Name: Seager
City or Town: Seend
State or Province: Wilts

Re: Any other Brits?

Post by Ian Seager »

Hi All - just saying hello. I certainly plan to start building a Panther when the LAA gives the nod. Sorry not to have popped in earlier!

Ian

Alan
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:49 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Roberts
City or Town: Southport
State or Province: UK

Re: Any other Brits?

Post by Alan »

Rob has given a better summary of interaction with the LAA than my earlier single sentence. Another point to consider that differentiates the US from the UK is liability. The LAA has a mandate from the CAA to ensure aircraft, provided they are built, maintained and flown correctly are fit for purpose, unlike the US where the builder takes on most of these responsibilities, including the test flights if he wants ( no criticism intended, the regulation is just different).

Anyway it will be interesting to see which model and engine are going to be put to the LAA, personally the Sport with UL260iSA or better still 350 appeals.

Dan, please keep us up to date with developments.

Alan.

Rob
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:05 am
First Name: Rob
Last Name: Hughes
City or Town: Worcester
State or Province: UK

Re: Any other Brits?

Post by Rob »

Dan,

That's encouraging... and I don't want to dampen any hopes, but the UK system is not the easiest. I have helped get aircraft flying in the UK before and it's taken us a long time with lots of problems on the way. Francis (at LAA) is highly experienced and pragmatic; he will look at the design and point out any areas he is unsure about or wants testing and this could take some time.

I worked with the microlight (ultralight) association in the UK. We had to convince their engineers that the aircraft's design was up to standard, using FE analysis or (mostly) making test rigs and adding loads to the structures. This is a time-consuming process.

Once you gain approval, any later changes to your design have to be submitted to the LAA for approval. We were buying in fuselages from a US company and found on each shipment that the US company had made developmental changes without telling us. This was a real pain for us as we had to submit any changes back to the engineers. So the Panther you present to Francis has to be the Panther you supply to customers with any future developmental changes having to be approved by their engineers.

Another thing; when we got approval for the microlights, the approval belonged to us so we were able to set up a dealership because we had the "monopoly" on sales. This meant that the $'000s that we spent on getting approval, making the necessary design changes, building the test rigs, building the first kit, sorting out supply chains, holding stocks, getting it test flown etc. etc. could slowly be recouped from future sales. The LAA does not work like that; once you gain approval, the LAA owns it so future builders can buy a kit direct from SPA. This is great for kit builders but it puts off anyone acting as a dealer or holding stocks of kit items or spare parts because the customer could cut out the middle man and buy direct. Also it means the first person to build a kit in the UK may do all the hard work and spend some extra $$ to get the kit finished and they will never get that money back because the next builder will take advantage of the first guy's work without having to help out financially...

If you are looking to set up a dealer in the UK, consider giving them territorial rights so that they stand a chance of building up stocks and having a viable business. If you do this early, the new dealer will also be able to help with approval and get the first UK Panther built.

As Tim said, keep us in the loop and ask if you need help!

Rob Hughes

t4tango
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 11:11 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Hardy
State or Province:

Re: Any other Brits?

Post by t4tango »

Plus One on this thread. I had the pleasure to meet with Dan and Rachael at Oshkosh and saw the Panther in the flesh (metal?) and was impressed by what I saw. I actually bumped into Ian Seager at the booth who was also waxing lyrically about the aircraft. As far as the build is concerned, I have limited room at home however I am sure that I could manage a Panther build no sweat so a big tick from me. Both Ian and I made encouraging noises to Dan and I am sure that once folks see a Panther in the UK, the orders will flow. What I am not clear about is how the LAA will react when Dan presents his detailed drawings, stress analysis and so on but please Dan, keep us in the loop and let us know if you need any support.

best wishes

Tim Hardy

danweseman
Posts: 133
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 9:18 pm
First Name: dan
Last Name: weseman
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Re: Any other Brits?

Post by danweseman »

Hi guys
we have started the initial talks with Francis at the LAA. We will be supplying him with the first round of information he needs in the coming weeks. The goal is to get a kit to UK in the December / January time frame. We have not decided if we will set up a "dealer " in the UK yet so are open to discussion on this.
Dan
Dan Weseman
Designer
Builder
Test pilot
Panther 515XP

Alan
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:49 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Roberts
City or Town: Southport
State or Province: UK

Re: Any other Brits?

Post by Alan »

Hi Rob, have you spoken with the LAA yet and if so how did it go? With the cost I can understand the reluctance to seek approval as an individual. Still might be a good idea to see what is involved and more accurately define cost, no point us dreaming, better to be doing!

Rob
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:05 am
First Name: Rob
Last Name: Hughes
City or Town: Worcester
State or Province: UK

Re: Any other Brits?

Post by Rob »

Yes - me! And Ian Seager, publisher of Flyer magazine, though he wants someone else to get LAA approval first. I know of one other who is interested and apparently more have expressed an interest on the Flyer forum.

Want to talk offline?

Rob

Alan
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:49 am
First Name: Alan
Last Name: Roberts
City or Town: Southport
State or Province: UK

Any other Brits?

Post by Alan »

Wonder if there are any other Brits out there interested in the Panther?
Great looking aircraft, good performance, modern engine option (UL) and folding wings, Wow I want one!
The only brake on this would be LAA approval, has anyone made any enquiries about the Panther yet or am I going to be the first ; )

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