Dimpling
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A forum for Panther aircraft builders and Enthusiasts. Two simple rules: Play nice and use a real name
A forum for Panther aircraft builders and Enthusiasts. Two simple rules: Play nice and use a real name
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soniyasinghania
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dgcsmith
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Re: Dimpling
Thank you for the help.
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at7000ft
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Re: Dimpling
All the info you need on this post - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=315
Decided to dimple mine, just ordered a 100 degree 1/8" dimple die. Will use protruding on the fuselage bottom as many have done. I believe all rivets going into the cage need to be stainless, whether flush or protruding.
Rick H
Decided to dimple mine, just ordered a 100 degree 1/8" dimple die. Will use protruding on the fuselage bottom as many have done. I believe all rivets going into the cage need to be stainless, whether flush or protruding.
Rick H
Rick Holland
N6819Z
N6819Z
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MikeS.
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Re: Dimpling
The following posts should answer your question on dimpling the fuselage:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=315&p=2588&hilit=fu ... ique#p2588
Stainless CCP rivets are the protruding style for attaching the aluminum to the steel cage. If you dimple the fuselage then CCC stainless flush rivets are used. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/h ... nrivet.php
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=480&p=2477&hilit=f ... ivet#p2477
The following is taken from the link above:
""psalter
Posts: 120
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Location: Green Cove Springs, Florida
First Name: Paul
Last Name: Salter
State or Province:
Re: Panther 92
PostTue Sep 12, 2017 8:19 pm
Rick is correct in saying that stainless CCP rivets are a challenge to drill out. They were mainly only used for aluminium to steel connections.
Another reason why it is not necessary to use CCP all around is structural design. A properly designed joint has the skin yield first in an overload condition, not the fastener. So, you can install a fastener a 1000 times stronger, and it won't change the strength of a well designed joint a bit. Why do this? A joint usually has a row of fasteners, if one fails, more load is transferred to the remaining fasteners. If the fastener is the critical item, the other fasteners would fail right away with the extra load (zipper affect), that would be bad news. If the skin is designed to yield first the skin will start to distort and give some warning before total failure. This hopefully will be caught in pre-flight or other inspections (another reason to perform inspections). Thus the extra strength of the fastener is irrelevant.
Just a reminder if you decide flush rivets on the skin to cage joints, the cage should be dimpled not countersunk. There is not enough material for a countersink without getting a knife edge in the steel (not a good practice). There is no doubt the dimples in the cage are not as nice and clean as in the skin where you can get the male and female die. I have built one, and helped on a second Panther with flush rivets on the cage, there is around 240 hours between the two Panthers with no issues.
Paul Salter
Team Panther
Engineer and Builder""
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=315&p=2588&hilit=fu ... ique#p2588
Stainless CCP rivets are the protruding style for attaching the aluminum to the steel cage. If you dimple the fuselage then CCC stainless flush rivets are used. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/h ... nrivet.php
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=480&p=2477&hilit=f ... ivet#p2477
The following is taken from the link above:
""psalter
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 4:50 pm
Location: Green Cove Springs, Florida
First Name: Paul
Last Name: Salter
State or Province:
Re: Panther 92
PostTue Sep 12, 2017 8:19 pm
Rick is correct in saying that stainless CCP rivets are a challenge to drill out. They were mainly only used for aluminium to steel connections.
Another reason why it is not necessary to use CCP all around is structural design. A properly designed joint has the skin yield first in an overload condition, not the fastener. So, you can install a fastener a 1000 times stronger, and it won't change the strength of a well designed joint a bit. Why do this? A joint usually has a row of fasteners, if one fails, more load is transferred to the remaining fasteners. If the fastener is the critical item, the other fasteners would fail right away with the extra load (zipper affect), that would be bad news. If the skin is designed to yield first the skin will start to distort and give some warning before total failure. This hopefully will be caught in pre-flight or other inspections (another reason to perform inspections). Thus the extra strength of the fastener is irrelevant.
Just a reminder if you decide flush rivets on the skin to cage joints, the cage should be dimpled not countersunk. There is not enough material for a countersink without getting a knife edge in the steel (not a good practice). There is no doubt the dimples in the cage are not as nice and clean as in the skin where you can get the male and female die. I have built one, and helped on a second Panther with flush rivets on the cage, there is around 240 hours between the two Panthers with no issues.
Paul Salter
Team Panther
Engineer and Builder""
Last edited by MikeS. on Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dgcsmith
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Dimpling
I am debating about whether to dimple the forward fuselage cage or use protruding rivets. If I decide to dimple does anyone have a suggestion as to the tools to use to dimple the steel cage? If I use protruding rivets what rivet would you recommend? Thanks.