Panther Sport Aircraft Forums

Minor point of clarification: I'm not wondering about the quality of parts or problems specific to each of the alternative engines. I'm mostly concerned with the long term availability of parts and, consequently, the viability of the companies that manufacture them.

Mr. Helms, thank you for chiming in regarding UL Power. It's great to hear about the investment you recently made in tooling. That bodes well for the future and I've been unable to find much online regarding negatives to your product. That, in and of itself, is a minor miracle given the proclivity of most people to spout negative things online. Kudos to you.

This is, in fact, exactly what I'm looking for in my research. I think smaller shops (not just in aviation) don't do a good job of celebrating and communicating their successes. Rachel has done good work in communicating the amazing progress of SPA through her stream of news. Seeing that kind of information and hearing from vendors like UL Power about their continuous improvement exercises is great.

Great song Tony.

Hi everybody. I'm the UL Power guy.

My recommendation:

Make a list of what is important to you. Rank these based on level of importance. And then score all the engines.

Weight? We are lightest.
Horsepower? We have 8 choices.
Technology? We are the most modern.
Company longevity? We evolved from a company called DR Tuning that has been building race car engines since the early 70's. We recently invested over $1,000,000 in new equipment and tooling to build the engines. We have a succession plan in place so there is no single critical person.
Parts? Wicks Aircraft Supply carries our parts.
Ecu? We have an optional dual ecu.
FWF Kit? Dan and Rachel have it ready.
Fuel? Auto gas with up to 15% ethanol, or 100LL.

We are just another choice. Lots of good engines on the market.

I've been pondering the same questions, nice to know I'm not alone. fortunately I am just getting started and have plenty of time to decide. At the moment I've narrowed my choices to Lycoming or Corvair. My only hesitation on the Corvair is the hostile terrain (Rocky Mountains) I have to fly over anytime I head west.

I'm not worried about he engine itself, it's the electrical system. I've never been stranded by a mechanical failure on anything but I have had electrical failures in cars and motorcycles that have left me high and dry. I had a complete electrical failure in a Cessna 172 once, in the mountains no less, and those magnetos kept me flying. There are ways to minimize the risks in the electrical system, and mags have there own issues. That is where most of my engine research and analysis time seems to be spent.

quesauce wrote: I would love to hear others thoughts and opinions about mitigating those risks.

Here's the solution: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

Find enough things to worry about and you'll never get out of bed in the morning!

Lucky for you the Panther is a firewall aft kit, so no need to decide just now.

Tony

I feel your pain but like most things today the risk of legal peril stops a lot of well meaning enterprises from developing new technology or "multipurposeing" existing technology. We certainly have the technology in the auto industry but the market is soooo small it is difficult to pay development cost let alone anticipate profit at some point. If they could sell 100,000 units a month, Honda or some one else would already have put the engine on the market for a reasonable price maybe under $5K. I looked hard at a GM V-6 for my RV-4 but ended up with a Lyc and paid 3X what I should have for the 1930's technology. I feel your pain!!

All,

I've been pondering the choices we have in picking a noisemaker for the Panther. The Corvair, UL Power, Jabiru, and even the new D Motor all have merit (some are shared, some are unique to each engine). One of the things common to all three that concerns me, however, is the somewhat limited supply of parts given the fact that they are unique and supplied by small companies.

The Corvair may be the least problematic. But if the Wesemans decide they're sick and tired of dealing with a bunch of whiny airplane builders and want to start providing kits to underwater basket weavers, those with a Corvair might have a problem finding replacement cylinders, crankshafts, 5th bearings, etc. as they are not the GM original parts widely available.

The Jab and the UL may pose a bigger risk. The whole thing is dependent on the future success of each company. One of the UL's big selling points is FADEC. And while FADEC is great, your engine simply won't run if your ECU goes down and a replacement isn't available. I've been reading over on vansairforce that some of the folks that used the Vertical Power systems for their wiring systems are having major pains given that they can't get replacement parts and might have to completely redo their electrical system.

It is entirely possible that Lycoming or the Lyclone companies might go out of business. But given the sheer number of Lyc engines in use across the world, someone will always be there to cater to the market. I'm not sure I can make that same statement for the alternatives.

Please don't misunderstand my intent; I think the alternative engines are great and it's fantastic to have choices. One of the problems with having choices is analysis paralysis so this is just one of those things that I've been thinking about lately. I would hate to spend $10k-$25k on an orphaned engine. I understand that everything has risk; I would love to hear others thoughts and opinions about mitigating those risks.